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#111442 - 12/20/12 03:31 AM Re: An Armed Society, is a politer Society [Re: Derid]  
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Originally Posted By: Derid
Originally Posted By: sini
Why would insurance make this condition of coverage then?


Cause it is at least some sort of indication that someone with authorization to enter a premises (and a key) did not just pawn it off. Insurance typically only wants to cover random criminal behavior, not angry girlfriends.



Incorrect. They make it a condition of coverage because it demonstrates minimal acceptable level of preventative actions/deterrence. If you leave your door open you are a lot more likely to get burglarized.


#111449 - 12/20/12 03:54 AM Re: An Armed Society, is a politer Society [Re: Sini]  
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Originally Posted By: sini
Incorrect. They make it a condition of coverage because it demonstrates minimal acceptable level of preventative actions/deterrence. If you leave your door open you are a lot more likely to get burglarized.
Right, because criminals just walk through neighborhoods trying everyone's door until they find one that is open...


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#111451 - 12/20/12 04:22 AM Re: An Armed Society, is a politer Society [Re: Sini]  
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Originally Posted By: sini
Originally Posted By: Derid
Originally Posted By: sini
Why would insurance make this condition of coverage then?


Cause it is at least some sort of indication that someone with authorization to enter a premises (and a key) did not just pawn it off. Insurance typically only wants to cover random criminal behavior, not angry girlfriends.



Incorrect. They make it a condition of coverage because it demonstrates minimal acceptable level of preventative actions/deterrence. If you leave your door open you are a lot more likely to get burglarized.


So if I carry a gun I am demonstrating minimal acceptable level of preventative actions/deterrence.


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#111456 - 12/20/12 04:59 AM Re: An Armed Society, is a politer Society [Re: Sini]  
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Originally Posted By: sini
Originally Posted By: Derid
Originally Posted By: sini
Why would insurance make this condition of coverage then?


Cause it is at least some sort of indication that someone with authorization to enter a premises (and a key) did not just pawn it off. Insurance typically only wants to cover random criminal behavior, not angry girlfriends.



Incorrect. They make it a condition of coverage because it demonstrates minimal acceptable level of preventative actions/deterrence. If you leave your door open you are a lot more likely to get burglarized.


Poor assumption is poor.

Not that this tangent has anything to do with the topic at hand. Unless you want to make the tired and incorrect " well banning X is better than nothing " act.

There have been people who have said "well if a law even prevented one death, it was worth it" forever. They werent right then, and still arent.

See Ice-T link posted previously for why. Its a strnage occurrence for me to be in 100% agreement with a gangsta rapper, but he is spot on.


For who could be free when every other man's humour might domineer over him? - John Locke (2nd Treatise, sect 57)
#111469 - 12/20/12 01:52 PM Re: An Armed Society, is a politer Society [Re: Kaotic]  
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Originally Posted By: Kaotic
Originally Posted By: sini
Incorrect. They make it a condition of coverage because it demonstrates minimal acceptable level of preventative actions/deterrence. If you leave your door open you are a lot more likely to get burglarized.
Right, because criminals just walk through neighborhoods trying everyone's door until they find one that is open...


Actually this is exactly how most burglaries are done.

Mass shootings aside - this is how most gun crimes are committed, with a gun that is too easily available. Stricter gun laws won't stop planned rampages but it will greatly reduce crimes of opportunity.

Pretending otherwise is just another conservative folly.


#111470 - 12/20/12 01:58 PM Re: An Armed Society, is a politer Society [Re: Derid]  
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Originally Posted By: Derid

Poor assumption is poor.


Availability and ease of access to gun is not an assumption - it is fact. Guns are way too easy to get for everyone, including mentally unstable individuals. This is big part of the problem.

Just like leaving your front door open - if you don't take minimal effort to safeguard/prevent the crime, then you are leaving yourself unreasonably exposed to it.


#111483 - 12/20/12 04:13 PM Re: An Armed Society, is a politer Society [Re: Tasorin]  
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Lots of talk on gun banning. We'll see if it happens or not.

If memory serves me correctly, the 1994 Ban still comes to mind of our elected officials considering the transfer of power to Republicans once the ban went into effect. ( Short version is, ban goes into effect, enough people vote out all the folks who voted for it )

This is pretty much the reason Congress tries to stay out of such legislation, especially with their own elections right around the corner. I doubt the legislation will pass without full Senate support ( and that's not going to happen ) and even if it does, expect a Supreme Court showdown over it.

The other way around it would be for the States to implement their own rules about them. As long as the weapon is made IN the State and doesn't leave it, Congress has no say so about the commerce side of things concerning it. I would expect that topic to make an appearance soon.

Reactionary legislation after a tragedy is a piss poor way to run a country. Anyone here think the Patriot Act is a good piece of legislation ?

If all it takes is a tragedy to erode your rights, stand by. Expect to see a lot more of them in the near future.

Afterthought:

I lock my doors because evil people exist in the world. You can't go a single day here without the news telling of yet another home invasion. Group of men gain entry, tie everyone up, then rob everything they can. Your life is at their mercy. Some kill their victims, some don't.

My alarm will trigger the instant it happens. The individuals in question will have approximately two seconds to reach the back bedroom before I have the means to negate their presence permanently in hand and ready to go.


Last edited by Daye; 12/20/12 04:24 PM.
#111484 - 12/20/12 04:30 PM Re: An Armed Society, is a politer Society [Re: Sini]  
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Originally Posted By: Daye
If all it takes is a tragedy to erode your rights, stand by.

Well, the Obama administration is never one to "let a crisis go to waste..."

Originally Posted By: sini
Originally Posted By: Kaotic
Right, because criminals just walk through neighborhoods trying everyone's door until they find one that is open...
Actually this is exactly how most burglaries are done.
It must be an interesting world you live in, where you're an expert in all things. Locks keep honest people honest and that is all. If someone wants whats in your house, they will get in regardless of your feeble little attempt at security by locking your door.

A much better way to secure your home is what Daye has offered, armed resistance.


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#111486 - 12/20/12 04:44 PM Re: An Armed Society, is a politer Society [Re: Kaotic]  
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Kaotic, insurance companies disagree with you. That why they insist you lock the door, that why they may charge you extra if you have too much firepower in your house. They have to understand risks - that how they make money. Money talks, bullshit walk.

Good luck getting home insurance discount because you own a gun.


#111496 - 12/20/12 07:13 PM Re: An Armed Society, is a politer Society [Re: Sini]  
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Not debating the points with Sini, because it's useless, and I'm not here to feed Trolls.

For those who actually read these forums without fixed bias, and are capable of considering counter-points:

Most illegal gun acquisitions do NOT occur as burglaries from legitimate gun owners; most are from others buying the guns and passing them on, or from illegal sales (either licensed dealers making illegal sales, or illegally smuggled guns sold in black markets.)
Here's one PBS Frontline article that talked about this very subject:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/guns/procon/guns.html

Also, regardless of what the Media blitz, and the lemmings who fall for their topics, want you to believe, Handguns are still the largest source of firearm homicide in the U.S. (by a longshot):
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/table-20


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