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#111364 - 12/19/12 12:06 AM Re: An Armed Society, is a politer Society [Re: Sini]  
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Originally Posted By: sini

Clip size
Stopping power
Ease of handling (and effective rate of fire).


You wrote that blanket-statement with little, to no, knowledge of ballistics. Your second item alone invalidates your claim because "stopping power" is a very subjective (basically marketing lingo) statement: a .22 pistol to the head has more stopping power than a .227 to the torso, and your off-the-shelf hunting shotgun has more short-range stopping power (to almost any part of the body) than both of them.

(Read up on Mafia killings; more people were killed by .22 caliber pistols than all other guns, including the infamous Tommy Gun.)

"Stopping Power" should never be used to compare weapons without specifying conditions, and even then breaks down to so many sub-components: ammunition used, velocity, kinetic energy, etc.

An assault rifle firing a full metal jacket round at a torso has a high probability of completely passing through the body. A .357 magnum pistol firing a hollow-point round into the torso is going to mushroom out and expand in the body, increasing the chances of hitting something major.

Originally Posted By: sini

You can get a handgun that would fire magnum high caliber rounds, but not 20+ at a time, plus only very skilled marksman would be able to shoot such handgun more than one round at a time and maintain any kind of accuracy.


Your statement suggests that only a 'handgun' requires a marksman to maintain any kind of accuracy with sustained firepower; this is completely false.

Have you ever seen the video of an inexperienced insurgent, or gang-banger, shooting an off-the-shelf, cheap, mass-manufactured AK-47 variant? The saying: "couldn't hit the broadside of a barn" wasn't just termed for high-caliber pistols.

If you'd ever attempted to "spray-and-pray" with a cheap mass-manufactured (most commonly found) full-auto assault rifle, you would realize how off your statement is. Your first round could possibly (with luck that any sight adjusting ever happened) be on target, and each successive round would be farther and farther from even being close. Someone taking a second to aim a single pistol round has as much of a chance as the non-experienced, lead-trigger assaulter.

And if you aren't talking about full-auto, then you're "20+ at a time" is way off-base for even the fastest-trigger expert.

Originally Posted By: sini

There is absolutely no point denying that semi-automatic rifle is by far more deadlier weapon than any comparable handgun.


Semi-automatic rifles are only superior in specific conditions, and even then it depends on the actual weapon, as well as the experience of the person wielding it.

In close range, in a building, etc., the cumbersome non-compact, standard assault rifle can become more of a hindrance than an asset. I would probably take a shotgun, or even a quality handgun over an assault rifle in such an example.


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#111391 - 12/19/12 02:34 PM Re: An Armed Society, is a politer Society [Re: Tasorin]  
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You are not going to sell anyone on the blatant falsehood that semi-automatic rifle with a large clip is not any more deadly than hunting rifle or low-caliber handgun.

Thankfully legislators distancing themselves from NRA and the likes. Gun stocks are down. Chances are - new anti-gun regulation is all but done deal.

The only question is how effective such legislation is going to be. I hope it will be combination of limitations of guns and stricter control over legal purchase and resale process as well as increased penalties for failing to properly secure your weapon.

I think car ownership process is an effective model - you have to acquire license to operate, you have to register it with the authorities and you have to have it inspected on a regular basis. If you ever sell it - new owner has to go through the same process. If you ever lose it, you are responsible for it up until you notify authorities it was stolen.

I also hope they will create a list of medical conditions that would make you ineligible for license.

Last edited by sini; 12/19/12 02:43 PM.

#111394 - 12/19/12 03:28 PM Re: An Armed Society, is a politer Society [Re: Tasorin]  
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I wonder if when the crazies gravitate back towards making IEDs filled with shrapnel, legislators will start restricting the sale of nails and ball bearings.

Perhaps we will all get to fill out a form and pay a hefty tax before we can shop at Home Depot.

Until people realize that it is the media that creates the problem - hey look, you get instant infamy , the world will focus on your sorry life 24/7 - nothing will change.

People should go watch Natural Born Killers, it highlighted the societal disease pretty well actually.


For who could be free when every other man's humour might domineer over him? - John Locke (2nd Treatise, sect 57)
#111403 - 12/19/12 07:17 PM Re: An Armed Society, is a politer Society [Re: Derid]  
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Derid, do you lock your front door? Why?


#111404 - 12/19/12 07:35 PM Re: An Armed Society, is a politer Society [Re: Tasorin]  
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So if someone breaks in insurance will cover the losses.


For who could be free when every other man's humour might domineer over him? - John Locke (2nd Treatise, sect 57)
#111409 - 12/19/12 09:01 PM Re: An Armed Society, is a politer Society [Re: Tasorin]  
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Why would insurance make this condition of coverage then?


#111414 - 12/19/12 10:21 PM Re: An Armed Society, is a politer Society [Re: Sini]  
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Originally Posted By: sini
You are not going to sell anyone on the blatant falsehood that semi-automatic rifle with a large clip is not any more deadly than hunting rifle or low-caliber handgun.

Thankfully legislators distancing themselves from NRA and the likes. Gun stocks are down. Chances are - new anti-gun regulation is all but done deal.

The only question is how effective such legislation is going to be. I hope it will be combination of limitations of guns and stricter control over legal purchase and resale process as well as increased penalties for failing to properly secure your weapon.

I think car ownership process is an effective model - you have to acquire license to operate, you have to register it with the authorities and you have to have it inspected on a regular basis. If you ever sell it - new owner has to go through the same process. If you ever lose it, you are responsible for it up until you notify authorities it was stolen.

I also hope they will create a list of medical conditions that would make you ineligible for license.


WOW Gun Stocks are down? I'm not sure where you get your information but where I live you can go to any gun shop and find empty shelves. Guns are flying off the shelves, I was going to by some more clips and I can't find anyone that has them. One guy told me he had 2000 clips and sold them all just over the weekend. Guns sales have been through the roof.

Last edited by Wolfgang; 12/19/12 10:22 PM.
#111428 - 12/20/12 12:22 AM Re: An Armed Society, is a politer Society [Re: Sini]  
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Originally Posted By: sini
You are not going to sell anyone on the blatant falsehood that semi-automatic rifle with a large clip is not any more deadly than hunting rifle or low-caliber handgun.

Thankfully legislators distancing themselves from NRA and the likes. Gun stocks are down. Chances are - new anti-gun regulation is all but done deal.

The only question is how effective such legislation is going to be. I hope it will be combination of limitations of guns and stricter control over legal purchase and resale process as well as increased penalties for failing to properly secure your weapon.

I think car ownership process is an effective model - you have to acquire license to operate, you have to register it with the authorities and you have to have it inspected on a regular basis. If you ever sell it - new owner has to go through the same process. If you ever lose it, you are responsible for it up until you notify authorities it was stolen.

I also hope they will create a list of medical conditions that would make you ineligible for license.


More laws always seems to be the answer for progressives.

foil


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#111437 - 12/20/12 02:39 AM Re: An Armed Society, is a politer Society [Re: Sini]  
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Originally Posted By: sini
Why would insurance make this condition of coverage then?


Cause it is at least some sort of indication that someone with authorization to enter a premises (and a key) did not just pawn it off. Insurance typically only wants to cover random criminal behavior, not angry girlfriends.


For who could be free when every other man's humour might domineer over him? - John Locke (2nd Treatise, sect 57)
#111439 - 12/20/12 03:13 AM Re: An Armed Society, is a politer Society [Re: Sini]  
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Originally Posted By: sini

I think car ownership process is an effective model - you have to acquire license to operate, you have to register it with the authorities and you have to have it inspected on a regular basis. If you ever sell it - new owner has to go through the same process. If you ever lose it, you are responsible for it up until you notify authorities it was stolen.

I also hope they will create a list of medical conditions that would make you ineligible for license.


With conceal carry permits you have to fill out an application and turn it in to the local sheriffs office. You have to pay for the background check which intensely goes through a Federal,State & local background check. If you have ANY mental issues that has been documented and of course any other legal issues, then you will not be able to get a permit. Just so you know, in these shootings that have happened, NONE of the shooters had a conceal carry permit.

About registering guns like cars. First you don't want people to know how many guns you have. If you have to register every gun you might as well put up a yard sign of how many guns you have and what kind they are. This is why conceal carry is a good thing, because if you don't know who has one, then you don't know who would shoot you if your a criminal looking for an easy score.

Just so you know, criminals are looking for people that are unarmed, and that are easy to take from. It's a lot less of a chance they would be shot. IN turn this is why it makes you less safe when you are in a gun fee zone. I'm sure if they could talk, any of those 87 people that were killed by the guy in Norway would agree that having a gun would have helped. But since he was the only one with a gun, well it's painfully obvious who's going to be the victim there.


Last edited by Wolfgang; 12/20/12 03:14 AM.
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