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As I have said before, I think in-person voting fraud is, in most cases, a non factor. The ratio of effort/number of involved actors/risk of discovery/etc is not congenial.

However, its extremely well documented how vulnerable electronic voting machines and voting tabulation systems are. Go google up some state reports on it. Or google up some independent analysis from security experts.

When considering attacking the vote tabulation mechanisms themselves, the ratio risk/reward/number of actors involved/risk of discovery/etc looks much more favorable. As such, it seems wise to be actively aware of the possibility and question the role it might be playing. People should be suspicious, and should share and spread that suspicion - trust in the system should be undermined, because it is unworthy of trust. If people come to grips with this, either electronic voting will be eliminated or at least security will be taken more seriously.

Also, there was a mega fuckton of evidence of polling shenanigans during the GOP primary. There is also evidence of shenanigans for past Presidential elections.

Your assumption that the only shady stuff that makes an impact is gerrymandering is just that - an assumption, and not one that is well grounded. Just because there is no public incontrovertible proof that it has happened does not mean it hasn't happened, and it doesn't mean that powerful interests - including foreign govts - haven't been clued in and arent tempted to take action in the future.


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Derid, you are attempting to change the subject here. Your initial implicature was that people who believe that Obama sole election are not wrong.

Typical right wing hysteria is that Blacks and illegal Latinos stole election. Hence all voter ID laws that were pushed through. Note, it wasn't electronic voting accountability that these identified as the problem but actual in-person early voting fraud. When you considered this position you thankfully realized how indefensible it is and now changing subject to electronic voting.

So I consider this topic to be adequately addressed - there is absolutely no reason to believe that "do you think that ACORN stole it for him?" was the case.


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Originally Posted By: Derid
Also, there was a mega fuckton of evidence of polling shenanigans during the GOP primary.


Again, this is entirely different subject. I honestly do not care if and how GOP primary is conducted. If it was up to me I'd turn it into gladiatorial combat to death.

This is entirely different subject from "Obama stole election". Unless you are implying that Obama had something to do with GOP primary process.


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Originally Posted By: sini
Derid, you are attempting to change the subject here. Your initial implicature was that people who believe that Obama sole election are not wrong.

Typical right wing hysteria is that Blacks and illegal Latinos stole election. Hence all voter ID laws that were pushed through. Note, it wasn't electronic voting accountability that these identified as the problem but actual in-person early voting fraud. When you considered this position you thankfully realized how indefensible it is and now changing subject to electronic voting.

So I consider this topic to be adequately addressed - there is absolutely no reason to believe that "do you think that ACORN stole it for him?" was the case.


No, you assumed to much and read something that wasnt there because of your own predjudiced reaction. You assume that anyone who disagreed with you did so because they are taking the "Fox" side. Thats your mistake, and has nothing to do with what I was or wasnt saying.

My thoughts on election fraud have been clearly consistent for a long time now.


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I said:



You said:

Originally Posted By: Derid
Who says it is a delusion?


And now you are saying:

Originally Posted By: Derid

No, you assumed to much and read something that wasnt there


So, Derid, where exactly did I "assumed"?

Survey question from the linked article:
"Do you think that Barack Obama legitimately won the Presidential election this year, or do you think that ACORN stole it for him?"

FYI: Anyone to answer, No I think ACORN stole it for him is delusional. More so, anyone who think that BO did not legitimately won the Presidential election is also delusional. It wasn't even that close of an election. Could you imagine magnitude of fraud required to turn what you suggest a legitimate Romney win into overwhelming and fraudulent victory for Obama?!


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You dont know if its a delusion or not is my point.

"What about people who thought that Obama stole the election through means other than ACORN? Answering "ACORN stole it for him" seems like the best fit for them among the options given."

Crappy question, will get crappy responses. You seem to be focusing on the particulars of a badly worded question. I didnt pay much attention to the ACORN part just the general sentiment.

You seem hung up on the crappy wording of a crappy poll, instead of talking about the general issue.


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So I didn't assumed after all, I understood your words exactly how you meant them.

Alright, lets drop ACORN part.

"Do you think that Barack Obama legitimately won the Presidential election this year?"

You are delusional if your answer is No. Note that it didn't ask "Do you think that there was no incidences of voter fraud whatsoever of any kind anywhere".


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You did assume, and as I said previously the answer is "We Dont Know". Lack of data. I think its dangerous to make a hard assumption one way or another, the election was close enough that it is quite possible shenanigans won him the day - and its also possible that GOP shenanigans actually were more effectual and Obama won anyhow.

It is also technically possible that noone tried any shady shit - though considering the character of the people who wield power, and the literally trillions of dollars of loot at stake, I tend to subjectively rate this as the lowest probability.

Quit trying to make stupid "gotchas" out of serious issues.


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Originally Posted By: sini
Originally Posted By: Derid
Also, there was a mega fuckton of evidence of polling shenanigans during the GOP primary.


Again, this is entirely different subject. I honestly do not care if and how GOP primary is conducted. If it was up to me I'd turn it into gladiatorial combat to death.

This is entirely different subject from "Obama stole election". Unless you are implying that Obama had something to do with GOP primary process.



So you cherry pick one thing he was using to make a point and go insane about how he is changing the subject? You my friend need to learn to be open minded, all the talking points and progressive propaganda seems to have taken its toll. Open your mind to new ideas, that is once you escape the re-education camp you are in.

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Both of you are nuts.

GOP primaries still have nothing to do with Obama, clean your own house.

We do know election results, and it wasn't even close.


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